tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post790943409751690007..comments2024-03-29T07:33:59.039+13:00Comments on The Imaginary Museum: How many Eskimo words are there for snow?Dr Jack Rosshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01805945600952222957noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-10105838578752102902008-12-10T08:50:00.000+13:002008-12-10T08:50:00.000+13:00Busted! Yeah, well, I suppose I have to admit the ...Busted! Yeah, well, I suppose I have to admit the truth in that. I <EM>should</EM> be more interested in laws of motion, but actually my little ears prick up the moment the signs of the Zodiac swim into sight ...Dr Jack Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01805945600952222957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-82684621037166635922008-12-09T16:46:00.000+13:002008-12-09T16:46:00.000+13:00Yeah, I don't disagree with you... just thinking a...Yeah, I don't disagree with you... just thinking along the lines of bewaring the discourses which <I>underpin</I> the factoids. Including your list of Isms - and certainly the other things which feed into them ... I'm not at all sure that people are aware of everything they "came in with", not by a long chalk.<BR/><BR/>[Your profession of disinterest re: the horn size of the Beast is not at all convincing, by the way.] ;-)Olivia Macasseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05057394085680957132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-44124101284063046622008-12-08T07:45:00.000+13:002008-12-08T07:45:00.000+13:00Well, I certainly see what you're saying, Liv. The...Well, I certainly see what you're saying, Liv. The factoid becomes a kind of cultural fact, illuminating lines of pressure etc. (conspiracy theories, born-again indigenism etc.) I guess I'd still stress the need to beware of them, though, given the fact that analysis of cultural <EM>idees recues</EM> tends, in my experience, to confirm the ideas and overview one came in with -- Marxism, Aestheticism, Feminism -- rather than <EM>testing</EM> them in any externally verifiable way. We're left with a ubiquity of falsehoods in any cultural paradigm, but I guess I'm still more impressed by Newton's laws of motion (culturally contingent though they certainly are) than his speculations on the size of the tenth horn of the Beast in <EM>Revelation</EM>. I think people are right to demote the latter set of speculations (though it would be unwise to avoid discussing them altogether).<BR/><BR/>Hope that makes some sense -- it's early morning here and the birds are singing outside.Dr Jack Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01805945600952222957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-58935931641890728512008-12-06T14:56:00.000+13:002008-12-06T14:56:00.000+13:00Interesting. Recently I got around to reading Pete...Interesting. <BR/><BR/>Recently I got around to reading Peter Høeg's <I>Smilla's Feeling for Snow</I> (second trans.) which in turn had me thinking about <I>Mr Pip</I> and what I think of as a kind of ventriloquist tendency through which white western males speak through (or "as") indigenous female characters. <BR/><BR/><I>Smilla</I> of course attracts all kinds of commentary about words for snow and the wonderful "authenticity" of the novel... the "interesting facts" readers picked up through the fiction, and so forth.<BR/><BR/>In many people's conception, authenticity itself, like truth, is conveyed through genre rather than source - factoids after all use the formal properties of facts: statistics, dates etc. <BR/><BR/>I think though that while you say they are dangerous they are also obviously serving some kind of purpose. They circulate like currency; they bind like glue. Some people are often so attached to ideas, like the snow-words one, that in casual conversation they simply disregard anything to the contrary. The Inuit, or the Sami, or Pasifik peoples for that matter are placeholders for particular <I>things</I> in the western imaginary (or imaginaries, if you prefer). I think not only could one ask "how do I actually know this?" but, whether it is true or not, "what purposes might this serve"?Olivia Macasseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05057394085680957132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-61516809639003207292008-11-28T01:37:00.000+13:002008-11-28T01:37:00.000+13:00I could be totally wrong - but I think that ... al...I could be totally wrong - but I think that ... all people on this earth - no matter what language they speak - use - more or less - the same number words or concepts - and basically the structures of languages are really all the same.<BR/><BR/>(Just as all computer "languages" have ultimately to be reduced to machine code so human languages have to be - in kind of parallel way - processed...) <BR/><BR/>This is my own view (although I also heard this from a person who was fluent in quite a few languages including Chinese) - I have no real skill with any language apart from English. I have tried to learn quite a few with varying (not much) success... <BR/><BR/>This is because (as far as I know) the human brain works the same wherever one is or whatever ones culture. <BR/><BR/>Of course there are differences - the Eskimo environment is unique - or it was previous to European contact.<BR/><BR/>The implication is that there is something very different about Eskimos (or Inuit or whoever). Even possibly that they are inferior.<BR/><BR/>Of course mostly asserting the many snow words theory is just harmless but it does or could have some problematic implications.<BR/><BR/>BUT - I could be completely wrong about it - perhaps every one's brains are very very different and the Inuits etc have millions of words for snow...<BR/><BR/>On a similar experience - I once got very irate (I wouldn't bother nowadays) when someone repeated what he had heard - that humans were slowly getting bigger - as if we would eventually all become giants! But this is biologically -and in fact physically impossible -but I was pretty drunk and the more I tried to oppose this view the more angry I got and the less able I was to explain why it was impossible. [I'd reached the point that I started to think maybe I am wrong - but I wouldn't admit it to myself or them!!] <BR/><BR/>So in fact in most cases it is wisest just to agree!! As mostly one is arguing about a lot of trivia, and often with strangers !<BR/><BR/>But the reason (for the height limit) is to do with basic forces - the exponential weight increases of hydraulics with height, the shift of the centre of gravity, and so on ... <BR/><BR/>These days I just agree with people if I think they are wrong and they insist they are right. Especially on "factual " issues - the last occasion was someone saying that resistance (ohmic) decreased with temp. which is wrong but I just stopped arguing - as I suddenly thought I myself might in fact be wrong... and if someone at a gathering asserts something like that - well - who cares about it really! <BR/><BR/>Language is perhaps worth few a more shots though! I have to say I am not sure about the snow thing but Jack's point sounds basically correct.<BR/><BR/>We had a bloody cold wet winter here but it didn't snow - I have only seen snow twice in my life... and it certainly never snows in Auckland!Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10272507198753290435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-50909955171084550242008-11-27T21:01:00.000+13:002008-11-27T21:01:00.000+13:00Awesome post. I've often heard but never believed ...Awesome post. I've often heard but never believed the 'untold words for snow' story. And it's great to learn the origins of 'factoid.' Rock on, Jack.Harvey Molloyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168420609485849643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-68643750945616650202008-11-25T22:41:00.000+13:002008-11-25T22:41:00.000+13:00Ah hah! So they don't have that many words for sno...Ah hah! So they don't have that many words for snow! Amazing how the factoid mill (a worse version of the gossip mill it seems!) can weave such convincing tapestries that barely have a thread of truth in them that we all take and proudly hang on our walls. Very interesting indeed!Kathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16731173186767835989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-51735662583430618882008-11-25T21:48:00.000+13:002008-11-25T21:48:00.000+13:00Apparently it snowed in Auckland once and people s...Apparently it snowed in Auckland once and people skied down Queen Street!The Whiteboardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09715495357806106609noreply@blogger.com