tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post4269044709643116185..comments2024-03-29T14:45:32.326+13:00Comments on The Imaginary Museum: 20 Favourite 20th-Century Long PoemsDr Jack Rosshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01805945600952222957noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-45379314725042387892009-03-02T13:56:00.000+13:002009-03-02T13:56:00.000+13:00Hi, I'm late to this post by quite a few months, b...Hi, I'm late to this post by quite a few months, but gloriously enjoyed it. I'd have to include Beverly Dahlen's A READING on my list, as well as Ed Dorn's GUNSLINGER and Robert Duncan's PASSAGES and something by Robert Creeley, like DAYBOOKS or IN LONDON perhaps. And I would probably go for THE ANATHEMATA by David Jones, though you're right that IN PARENTHESES is a terrific poem. Thanks for the post!charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02186181900863150845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-36817010271242200492008-09-25T10:05:00.000+12:002008-09-25T10:05:00.000+12:00Yes, I checked out your list, maps, and very fine ...Yes, I checked out your list, maps, and very fine I thought it. Many interesting leads I want to follow up - <EM>Lud Heat</EM> particularly. Whether you can actually class "Spain 1937" as a long poem is debatable, I suppose -- but it's certainly thematically large enough to contain multitudes ...<BR/><BR/>Your Alun Lewis enthusiasm remains unabated, I see. I'm actually wondering, in the light of Ted Jenner's remarks in the latest <EM>brief</EM>, whether one couldn't stretch the rules to include Christopher Logue's <EM>War Music</EM> in a future list.<BR/><BR/>Livvie would like to add T. S. Eliot's translation of Perse's <EM>Anabasis</EM>, I imagine.Dr Jack Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01805945600952222957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-1434829889443218032008-09-24T13:47:00.000+12:002008-09-24T13:47:00.000+12:00Hi Jack 'n all, my list is here:http://readingthem...Hi Jack 'n all, my list is here:<BR/><BR/>http://readingthemaps.blogspot.com/2008/09/twenty-big-ones.htmlmapshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18209906216745532870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-75097303871455384592008-09-22T07:59:00.000+12:002008-09-22T07:59:00.000+12:00Oh, quite so. Yes, I certainly have similar qualms...Oh, quite so. Yes, I certainly have similar qualms about novel translations, too - but I think there's a difference in degree. With prose there's quite a good chance of getting a substantial amount of the original across (with inevitable exceptions, of course - how do translations of <EM>Ulysses</EM> read?). With poems the odds go way down.Dr Jack Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01805945600952222957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-2998303645569334652008-09-21T18:20:00.000+12:002008-09-21T18:20:00.000+12:00Yes, this makes sense, but raises another question...Yes, this makes sense, but raises another question - why do you not have similar qualms about twentieth century novels?<BR/><BR/>(note: I'm not trying to be argumentative here; just genuinely - and generally - curious about these things)Olivia Macasseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05057394085680957132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-28829372937088847572008-09-21T15:16:00.000+12:002008-09-21T15:16:00.000+12:00Oh, I'm tremendously fond of translating poems - a...Oh, I'm tremendously fond of translating poems - and of reading translations of them, for that matter. That's the distinction I'd make, though. When one reads a translation, one's reading a poem by that translator inspired by (and even, hopefully, with certain similarities to) the original.<BR/><BR/>Reading the original requires knowledge of the original language - probably fluency in that language, actually.<BR/><BR/>I'd be happy to compile a list of good English translations of long poems in various languages, but I don't think it's the same thing as a list of good long poems in those languages. It might all seem like a bit of an unnecessary quibble until you actually have the experience of reading a poem <EM>and</EM> one or more of its translations.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes the translation reads better than its original. Not very often, though, in my experience.Dr Jack Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01805945600952222957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-24103985382457370622008-09-21T14:47:00.000+12:002008-09-21T14:47:00.000+12:00Oh, I was only joking about the "should" - probabl...Oh, I was only joking about the "should" - probably no-one should share my taste, after all. <BR/><BR/>I'm slightly surprised that you find the prospect of poems in translation dubious given that you yourself have made many translations of poetry, but then again perhaps that's why? I mean, the act probably increases your awareness of what's at stake? <BR/><BR/>Hmm, I'm not sure that a translation of a poem alone is what makes one like it - the rhythms and the sounds of the words play a big part in how much one likes something.Olivia Macasseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05057394085680957132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-41792337778793934792008-09-21T08:18:00.000+12:002008-09-21T08:18:00.000+12:00Oh, this is totally an anglophone list, Livvie. Wi...Oh, this is totally an anglophone list, Livvie. With the novels I compiled both an English-language and an in-translation list, but I felt a bit dubious about doing that with <EM>poems</EM> in translation. <BR/><BR/>However, I probably <EM>don't</EM> like St. John Perse as much as I should - though both Eliot and Auden did good versions of him. Neruda's <EM>Canto General</EM>, Akhmatova's <EM>Requiem</EM> and Tsvetayeva's <EM>Poem of the End</EM> would all be on my foreign-language list. Maybe some Henri Michaud and Aime Cesaire, too.Dr Jack Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01805945600952222957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-16880191089793669242008-09-20T15:46:00.000+12:002008-09-20T15:46:00.000+12:00Was this an anglophone list, or do you just not li...Was this an anglophone list, or do you just not like St John Perse as much as you should? <BR/><BR/>Good post, anyway.Olivia Macasseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05057394085680957132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-18978354643585502142008-09-13T22:55:00.000+12:002008-09-13T22:55:00.000+12:00I read Auden's "Letter to Lord Bryon" last night -...I read Auden's "Letter to Lord Bryon" last night - indeed it's fascinating - a great read - one of the "best" long poems? ...well Auden is a great poet...and in "The Letter" his extraordinary technical brilliance is shown and his depth and his great facility with language and his wit - all are there - his concern with "evil" and history - in fact it is also good is insight into Auden's work (and his life) as a whole even telling how he started writing...It took reading a few pages before it gripped me but then I was totally absorbed in it - the best of Yeats (or someone) with the best of Pope.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10272507198753290435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-27112815761282713082008-09-13T20:40:00.000+12:002008-09-13T20:40:00.000+12:00This is a totally ass-kickin' post, Jack. Good to...This is a totally ass-kickin' post, Jack. Good to see ya back.Harvey Molloyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168420609485849643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-23346610815705815952008-09-12T11:54:00.000+12:002008-09-12T11:54:00.000+12:00Here's my list:1. Robert Adamson 'Cross th...Here's my list:<BR/><BR/><BR/>1. Robert Adamson 'Cross the Border'<BR/>2. Charles Olson 'Maximus Poems'<BR/>3. Ed Dorn 'Idaho Out' <BR/>4. Cesar Vallejo 'Trilce'<BR/>5. Federico Lorca 'Poet In New York'<BR/>6. John Ashbery 'Three Poems'<BR/>7. George Oppen 'Of Being Numerous'<BR/>8. Allen Curnow 'Moro Assinato' <BR/>9. Ted Hughes ' The Life & Songs of Crow'<BR/>10. T.S Eliot 'Four Quartets'<BR/>11. Bob Dylan 'Isis'<BR/>12. Lawrence Ferlinghetti's 'Coney Island of The Mind'<BR/>13. James K. Baxter 'Pig Island Letters'<BR/>14. Peter Olds 'Freeway'<BR/>15. Ian Wedde 'Pathway To The Sea'<BR/>16. John Berryman 'Dream Songs'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-53578945858969233752008-09-12T01:52:00.000+12:002008-09-12T01:52:00.000+12:00I'm afraid I don't know a lot of these - I...I'm afraid I don't know a lot of these - I have read some<BR/><BR/>1)'Letter to Lord Bryon'<BR/><BR/>I thought this was actually a short poem. I like 'The Orators'<BR/><BR/>2) James K. Baxter: "Words to Lay a Strong Ghost" - from Runes (1973)<BR/><BR/>I've really only read parts of Baxter - certainly not this.<BR/><BR/>3) John Berryman: Love & Fame (1970)<BR/><BR/>I'd never heard of this and I would have put Berryman as a great poet on the basis of his Dream Songs etc <BR/><BR/>4) Anne Carson - I know her name but have read nothing by her...or did she translate Sappho? If so I have read that book...<BR/><BR/>5) HD I thought she just wrote a few short Imagist poems - but this reminds me I have that book I think but I have got around to reading it! (Hamish D is the HD man!)<BR/><BR/>6)Walter de la Mare <BR/><BR/>read very little by him - my local dentist - a few years ago - was great grandson a Mr Delamare.<BR/><BR/>7) The Waste Land - I read this in 1968 and memorised it also. It is a poem I never tire of - a great poem. It has become a part of me.<BR/><BR/>8) 'Kaddish' have read - it is better than Howl or America.<BR/><BR/>9) Susan Howe - she is a great poet - she was member so to speak of the Language poets - I don't know "Bibliography of the King's Book, or, Eikon Basilike (1989)" but I am<BR/>interested in her other books. She and du Plessis, Lauterbach, and Duncan and Tina Darragh have done some fascinating work...but I have really only "finished" one or two of these long poems... the problem is that they are so long! Also whatever I start reading generlly leads me to some other work referenced (or related in some way) ad infinitum... <BR/><BR/>10) I read most of these - they are very moving poems - I like Hughes and Plath - both great poets.<BR/><BR/>11)David Jones: In Parenthesis (1937) This I have read - a great poem - his art work is great also.<BR/><BR/>12) Patrick Kavanagh: The Great Hunger (1942) - I don't know this.<BR/><BR/>13) Robert Lowell, Life Studies (1959) This is an important work I feel - it is a mix of prose and poetry as Williams Carlos Williams's: "Spring and All" as it was in "Imaginations" - I see such things as an integral work.<BR/><BR/>14) "The Maximus Poems" I was re-reading them recently - need to get the large version again - even "crazier" are the letters between Creeley and Olson - Olson is even a greater rambler than I am. Huge man - huge works. 'A' in parts is magnificent - but also I have only read a chapter here and there and a few furthr chapters and so on - but I like the idea of 'A' and The Cantos also. Olson and Creeley were big fans of Pound of course as s Zukofsky also they all influenced each other...<BR/><BR/>15) Dorothy Porter: The Monkey’s Mask (1994) - never heard of the author or her work.<BR/><BR/>16) Ezra Pound: Hugh Selwyn Mauberley: Life and Contacts (1920)<BR/>- this is one of the greatest long poems ever written.<BR/><BR/>17) Peter Reading, Perduta gente (1989)<BR/><BR/>I don't know this work of his but he is great value as poet - can be very funny also...<BR/><BR/>18) Kendrick Smithyman: Atua Wera (1997) / Imperial Vistas Family Fictions (2002)<BR/><BR/>I have Atua on a shelf but never got into it. Smithyman's work is perhaps one giant long poem!<BR/><BR/>19) Dylan Thomas: Under Milk Wood (1945-1953) <BR/><BR/>I couldn't read this! But I love his other poetry.<BR/><BR/>20) William Carlos Williams: Paterson (1946-63) - I read this right through - it is a major poem/work.<BR/><BR/>Stevens - marvelous poetry - I find I get caught by his poetry and it "takes me over"...<BR/><BR/>A long poem I liked greatly is Ashbery's prose poem "Three Poems" but his "A Vermont Notebook" is- perhaps not so long but a great work.<BR/><BR/>I also liked the books of Ron Silliman although I didn't read his whole Alphabet - (there is no point) - his "Tjanting" and "Paradise" give me the same buzz as Gertrude Stein's "Stanzas in Meditation" (you have to concentrate and let them "take you over" - indeed much as if actually meditating) which I put up there as perhaps the major revolutionary poem of the 20th Century - of course every time one says such a thing one recalls another "great" poem or poet etc I could never be bothered with Alice B Tolkas or the poem about The Americans...<BR/><BR/>I remember on the Poetics List they started talking about long modern or "postmodern" "serial poems" - <BR/>and there were hundreds of them! -many I had heard of but never read...and a lot I had simply no knowledge of (not that it matters a twisted tuppence to me or anyone else what I know or don't know!!)<BR/><BR/>But people do find this kind of stuff fun Jack - it is a kind of slightly higher level "trivia" and everyone loves talking about what he or she likes etc <BR/><BR/>This also means they feel a part of what is going on (involve people in your Blog and you will get people very interested)...so this is all good stuff. Some "far out" selections here!Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10272507198753290435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29676463.post-89685683372968662322008-09-11T23:43:00.000+12:002008-09-11T23:43:00.000+12:00Welcome back, Jack! An inspiring post, which (yet ...Welcome back, Jack! An inspiring post, which (yet again) exposes alarming chasms in my reading. Chasms which must be filled!Tim Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14856414700019368658noreply@blogger.com